"Yeah the description killed you, you appeasing traitorous liberal." Liberals are traitorius? the southern neck of your party still supports the confederate flag... a flag which is a true sign of a traitor to america.

o yeah whetstone is a morgage salesman?!? why didnt he tell us. damn whats the point of arguing after years of his physics training.

"mention that some objects indicate a blue shift, meaning they are heading toward the center." Uh.. No. Everything is redshifted since the universe is expanding, thus everything is moving AWAY from us. There is some stellar body which astronomers call the "great attractor" which seems to be pulling galaxies and the like towards it, but they're still moving away from us. let me rephrase, the red shift indicates movement away right? these objects are slowing down and some have already started to head toward the center, eventully all objects will be there and a new big bang is ready creating a new universe.

no this doesnt prove that something had to have started the universe, not in anyway shape or form, even if you do point to god your logic is flawed.. who created god? the human mind isnt adept enough to comprehend that the universe has always been here... always. its been here and it will be here for eternity... why? no one knows. and whetstone if you use the logic to comprehend god you have no faith good day sir.

whetstone the red shift indicates the object is moving away you forgot to mention that some objects indicate a blue shift, meaning they are heading toward the center. Stephen Hawking belevies that the universe popped into existence not god. Most scientists believe it is a never ending cycle of big bangs, ie above some red shifts and some blue shifts eventully all matter will be at the center again and ready for a new big bang. also the 2nd law of thermodynamics deals with creation of energy.... not matter you f*cktard.