Isn't it poetic? Freedom dies where Democracy was born.

+1

.....woah.....

-1

The anti-globalization movement is total bullsh*t.

+1

The globalisation movement is total evil.

-4

In your paranoia, you actually believe that globalization is a cohesive movement. You should get a new hobby.

+1

It's very simple: if you want total control, the last thing you want is variation, so naturally you want more and more centralisation of power into fewer and fewer hands.

-3

who the f*ck is 'you'? Anti Globalization is all 'if's' and 'maybe's". There's absolutely nothing of substance. Like for example is there any POSITIVE ideas, like besides... corporations are evil, banks are evil, the US is evil, and I mean besides some idealistic, literary, marxist utopia bullsh*t?

+2

Just fer kicks, how about pointing out, sayyyy, that AIG basically insured their own bad loans causing not one but numerous massive economic industries to collapse. Marxist or Keynesian or whatever, you probably don't want that to happen again. I'm just sayin' is all.

+1

Yeah... no look, I'm asking if antiglobaiists have any positive, cohesive and practical ideas other than fear this, and fear that.

+2

Yes -- STOP THE NWO!!

-4

Ok, that's negative... lets try this again...

+2

Actually, it's VERY VERY positive.

-3

Well, NWO is some hypothetical sh*t anyways, so its not practical, and you haven't laid out any constructive ideas what to do, all you said is stop it, which is not really anything positive or realistic.

+2

How is it not realistic or positive? I'm fighting the NWO by spreading the Truth, this is an INFOWAR!

I'm not some paranoid, NWO-fearing anti-globalist. I was just pointing out that maybe you don't actually want power consolidated in the hands of a few for some logical, non-wacko reasons. As for something "positive," well, without globalization (which I'm not inherently against and neither was Marx or, say, McLuhan) we wouldn't have invasive species like we do now. Hence, no globaization = more sustainable ecology. That is unless you think that Asian jumping carp in the Illinois River is an improvement.

+1

I might also add that sustainable, regional, small scale agribusiness is better for the earth, often better for food, and tends to disprove much of what we thought in the mid 20th century about globalized food production. Maybe not everyone on earth *needs* to have bananas immediately available to them 24hrs a day if they instead grow their own regional foods, thereby not turning the countryside of entire nations into food factories.

+1

You must admit that each time there's a swine or bird flu or other pandemic outbreak/scare, globalization looks kinda bad. Again, I'm not antiglobalizationist out of such fears but if you want a positive argument, well: regionally self-sustaining societies tend not to wipe each other out via common headcolds. That said, I guess one could argue that globalization will breed, via attrition of the weak and susceptible, a stronger, more flu-resistant human. But that's only positive if yr not a polar bear.

+1

I agree. But, most of all, we have to stop the NWO before they fulfill they plan of global domination and extermination of 80% of humans.

-3

OK, now yr just making my job harder! But I do appreciate your tenacity.

+1

lol. You guys are arguing two different things. Is this about the shadowy organization controlling the world or this about preserving some idealistic ecosystem of purity?

+1

And, then if the human race is exterminated wont that HELP the environment, so supposedly this a good thing...

-1

I was just responding to your initial statement that "The anti-globalization movement is total bullsh*t." It isn't. The argument that 150 men from like 8 countries and/or 12 corporations control globalization, on the other hand, well...I'll let Uncircumcised weigh in on that.

-1

Ok... and first off... invasive species? Species have been invasive since there have been species. An idealized ecosystem that survives eternally like a garden eden doesn't exist. Second, we dont have the land for everyone to have their own farm to grow their own crops. Third, the flu (Which turned out to be a dud) would exist even without globalization. So people travel from place to place... it's not like there weren't transmittable diseases that wreaked havoc before globalization. Plague?

Not saying there's such a thing as a pure, isolated state (or that such a condition would be inherently better). just playing devil's advocate because I'm bored. That said, it is due to globalization that everything from rats and pigeons to zebra mussels and jumping carp spread beyond their natural habitats. Species do move, yes, but those are clear examples of artificially transferred organisms that have had seriously detrimental impacts on the ecologies (and economies) into which they were introduced.

-1

And I'm just fine with that last flu being a dud, thanks. Bring on all the duds you want. That said, it was sad to watch the panic of a flu outbreak ignite xenophobia and outright ridiculous racism in the name of isolationist, protectionist fervor. Sad, but expected.

-1

And also meteors hit the earth and kill off enormous amounts of species and allow other species to thrive. The history of the earth has been one of change. I don't think there's such thing as 'detrimental', it simply has changed. I think it would be unnatural if ecosystems DIDN'T change.

But you can't blame banks, corporations, and a 'global government' for swine flu.

-1

Just to disambiguate the terms here....'globalization' is not the same as 'world government'. The 'one world government' is the goal of the alleged NWO and what Uncircumcised is railing against. That's where the real debate is. I don't think any reasonable person can question the deleterious effects of economic globalization, but there is plenty of speculation and disagreement as to whether these elite financiers and their puppet politicians are trying to orchestrate a move toward world government.

I do believe that the ultra rich and powerful are trying to consolidate power into monolithic control centres. I do think they're pushing for world government and one world currency. Rockefeller has openly admitted it on numerous occasions. But really, should it come as any surprise that rich and powerful want more wealth and power? That they want it all? That's not a conspiracy; that's history and human nature.

Ummm, meteors aren't sentient. Not quite the same thing. But I'll give you the point that change vs. stasis requires a set of values that are social constructs. Then I'll go get a cheeseburger. Because I'm hungry and I'm not a meteor and I can.

-1

People get worked up over "Who did 9/11" and "Are the elite actually reptilian aliens" (my personal fave of all conspiracies) and go chasing after FEMA prison camps and Georgia Guidestones - and, yes, there's plenty of room for skepticism on those points. But, in the end, the rich are trying to screw us and take it all: of that we can be certain. Who cares if 9/11 was an inside job? Either way, you're still being raped by a guy in a silk suit that you've never met and who views you as beneath contempt.

Very well put, Gordon. By the way, I thought you took Reptilians seriously? Personally, I do not, but, you know, who's to say...

-1

See, thats the crap that feeds conspiracy. The basic conspiracy is based on this: Well, it SOUNDS right, so it MUST BE right. Can you imagine if all knowledge was based on a hunch? We'd still be in our caves banging rocks with bones.

No, I don't take it seriously. I just think it's a hell of a story and I love David Icke. I also loved "V" when I was a kid - I used to watch it with my dad. I just want to make a tribute site to him. But I do think the Bilderberg sh*t is for real. What sealed it for me was when Obama and Clinton were both summoned to the Bilderberg meeting during the primaries.

By your reasoning: Hunch = Truth

+1

By your reasoning, you're an idiot.

-3

who, me? I don't consider it a "hunch". Rockefeller has said "I want to build a one world government." Bohemian Grove exists. The most powerful people in the world meet regularly, behind closed doors, to privately discuss global business and politics. The "NWO" term was not the creation of conspiracy theorists - it's a term openly parroted by the same politicians to go to these closed-door, off-the-record meetings.

"the rich are trying to screw us and take it all" Trying?!

+2

No, MrMuskOx isn't an idiot - he just disagrees.

+2

Ha. Bohemian Club. I live 2 blocks from that crap. So what if rich republicans want to prance around naked and sh*t? Let them. Lol the rich of the world do all sorts of sh*t behind closed doors. WTF? You think everyone knows or should know what senators and presidents say to eachother? Not everything is public domain you know.

+1

Sorry, MrMuskOx. Well said, Gordon. Good point -- the term "New World Order" was not made up by "conspiracy theorists", it is VERY often repeated by various politicians, and it can be indicative of their affiliation with the group. One other thing by which you can tell they're one of them is the El Diablo hand sign. Although Ron Paul has used it, too, so I'm not really sure about this; it may have a different meaning in some situations, I guess.

-1

The top execs in the media industry across the globe meet each month at the museum where I used to work. It is by invitation only, it requires an extremely expensive membership, and they discuss "the future of media." As an employee I took part in a few of these meetings. The premise is simple: they have control of the market, they want to keep it, they discuss ways to do that under the guise of headings like "the future of television" and "journalism after print" and "digital media possibilities."

+1

*sigh* ok fine, drop the Bohemian Club point, if you must. If you think it's all just harmless Republican fun and games, that's your own perogative. But the world's elite still meet on a regular basis to discuss the future of this world, outside of public scrutiny and effectively circumventing any kind of open debate. I most emphatically believe it should be "public domain" when the world's elite invite themselves to conferences to discuss geopolitical and global economic strategies.

+1

Republicans? No, it's not just the Republicans, it's ALL of them. Well, shouldn't it be at least a little unsettling to you knowing that future presidential "candidates", who are supposedly opposed to each other, go and take part in bizzare satanic rituals, in front of a 40-foot (or so) owl god, and engage in homosexual orgies?

So basically whenever people in power come together it has to be for nefarious reasons, and it can never be a basic business strategy meeting.

-1

Uncircumcised, sometimes people just throw the horns because they f*cking rock.

+1

It's not a secret cabal. But it is an elite group of people deciding what happens on a scale unfathomable to the average joe. There's nothing shocking about knowing that they do this: of course they do. The question is what's at stake when you let a small group of self-interested people maintain that much control over any industry. These guys meet over the future of media. Imagine if that meeting were about fixing oil prices in developing, anti-Western nations.

+1

Also, as Jim Tucker said, the reason for their secrecy is that they do evil; "good works are done in the sunshine".

That a bit of an oversimplication, MrMuskOx. The Bilderberg conferences are not "basic strategy meetings", and certainly not every meeting of public figures is nefarious. I just like it a lot better when they do it publicly. If it's just "basic business stategy" why hide from the public? I would expect nothing less from my own government. Why can't I engage in this process? I have a vested interest in the outcome.

First of all, even government is not open to the public. There's lots of inner workings of the government that would not function if everyone knew every detail, and im not talking about secret prisons, I'm talking about like deals made to get bills passed in the senate or some sh*t. Second, corporations are private. You have every right to find out what they're doing as I have in busting into your home and videotaping you fapping to YTMND.

So if you're just hunky dory with governments increasingly resembling corporations, then no argument here will make any headway into that and we can all just go get cheese burgers. Because we are sentient. And we can.

+1

Woah woah woah - "even government is not open to the public." That may be empirically true, alas - but are you suggesting that it's good for some things to be kept secret from us. Are you saying that "deals made to get bills passed in the senate or some sh*t" is the right way to govern? And, dude, don't even get me started on corporation's "rights to privacy". This thread will never end. I'll just say that I respectfully disagree with the notion that corporations should have the same rights as individuals.

+1

If you ever wanna come over and videotape me fapping to YTMND, though - hey, that's cool. We should exchange MSN handles after this debate.

Well look, any rights that you have in this country is based on what the Constitution says. There is nothing about the right to know what private corporations are doing. There is nothing about the right to know what private individuals are doing. The government also owns property like prisons and military bases that are not open for the public to do what they want. For good reason. Basically there is no right to know everything.

If corporations are cheating us out of our hard-earned money, do we have a right to know? If the government arrests people on trumped-up charges of terrorism and then tortures them in their prisons, do we have a right to know?

+1

There's nothing in the Constitution about the rights of corporations, either. And a lot of very smart people freaked out when that got tacked on later, and for good reason. People who are not a part of ____ corporation don't benefit a whole hell of a lot from ____ corporation's secrecy. To design gov't more along those lines is clearly the opposite of what the U.S.'s founders had in mind.

+1

Ok. Well this has been fun, but I have to end this discussion early, because I have to get ready for my Con Law final exam.

+2

also, c*cks.

+3

Yeah I gotta go too, but it certainly has been fun. Cheers guys. FAV'd.

+1

Mussolini said that when the interests of wealthy corporations take over the interest of the individual, that's fascism. Also, don't forget how the big corporations and the government work together.

Cheeseburger.

+1

Exactly! I too have been trying for years to expose the secret cabal behind Buildabear!

what a domain grab

Hoping to get the Reptilian Agenda done for the weekend....

I CAN NVER BE SURE THAT YOU OR POSSIBLY EVERY PERSON IN THE "CONSPIRACY" "FAD" "GROUP" ARE NOT THEMSELVES PART OF THE CONSPIRACY I KNOW THAT H1N1 FLU WAS RELEASED BY THE FBI ONE DAY BEFORE IT WAS RELEASED BY THE FBI WHICH ITSELF WAS PREDITED BY CONSPIRACY THEOSRISTS HOW DID THEY KNOW THAT IT WOULD HAPPEN UNLESS THEY WERE COMPLICIT WITH THE NEW FBI REGIME WHICH IS ITSELF PART OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER IN WHICH THE BILDERBERGS WHO CAUSED THE ECONOMIC MELTDOWN IN ORDER TO CONSOLIDATE WEALTH FURTHER SUCH THAT THEY

WILL BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN SURPEME CONTROL OVER THE ENTIRE WORLD AND WHO IS ALSO COMPLICIT WITH THE MASONS WHO THEMSELVES HAVE HELPED TO RELEASE CHEMTRAILS AND CHEMICALS INTO THE WATER (FLOURIDE? CREST?) INTO THE SEWER SYSTEMS VIA SECRET PASSAGES LEADING INTO THE SEWAGE SYSTEMS THUS POISINGNG THE WATER IN A MEANS THAT CANNOT BE CLEANED OR DETECTED BY WATER TREATMENT PLANTS (ARE THEY ALSO PART OF THE CONSPIRACY? I DONT KNOW!!!) TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT YOU MAY BE TRYING TO KILL ME. LEAVE ME ALONE.

YEAH, SURE WE ARE ALL DISINFO AGENTS WHO EXPOSE OUR MASTERS AS A HOBBY! *facepalm*

-1

Funny how a meeting of 150 fo the worlds most rich and powerful behind closed doors gets no coverage by the mainstream media. They say it's not a news story. I bet if there were 150 celebrities meeting all the major news networks would be doing 24/7 coverage. God damn there are some dumb f*cks on ytmnd. Probably all the flouride they've been drinking. Also I heard some bombs went off in the area. Apparently the work of some greek revolutionaries. Kudos to them.

+1

Have you heard about this British journalist Charlie Skelton who was arrested 2 times just for taking photos around the place? After that, he woke up to the truth.

yes, I read prisonplanet every day